DOG-EARED with Lisa Davis & the Health Power podcast.

DOG-EARED with Lisa Davis EP #34: BOOK: "The Senior Dog Wellness Guide." AUTHOR: Sally Gutteridge

July 13, 2023 Naturally Savvy
DOG-EARED with Lisa Davis & the Health Power podcast.
DOG-EARED with Lisa Davis EP #34: BOOK: "The Senior Dog Wellness Guide." AUTHOR: Sally Gutteridge
Show Notes Transcript

Lisa is joined by Sally Gutteridge to talk about her book, The Senior Dog Wellness Guide. Sally Gutteridge is a writer, obsessed with the welfare and wellbeing of dogs.As an ex-military dog trainer, former instructor of Hearing Dogs for Deaf People and long term rescuer Sally has devoted her life to canine education and getting the right dog focussed information to as many people as possible. Investigating and interpreting the most up to date science on how dogs live and learn is vital to the welfare of dogs and the accurate, empathetic knowledge of their guardians. Within a successful partnership and an excellent team Sally provides top quality education through Canine Principles Ltd at Sally lives in rural Cumbria UK with an ever patient husband and 4 rescued terriers.

Book Description:

Life with an older dog is amazing. If we meet our dogs when they are bouncing, enthusiastic youngsters and watch them get stiff and steady, ageing seems to happen quickly and brutally. Yet, loving an older dog is the sweetest thing in the world, they know our every movement and we know theirs. Their eyes get foggy and they might need a little extra light for that midnight toilet break. They might do odd things like lie on a hard floor when surrounded by expensive memory foam beds. The older dog might be going deaf, or simply ignoring you; leaving you wondering which it is. 
The sugar nose years are amazing times. They are easily as precious as puppyhood. The dog we have shared our homes with for many years, becomes the blood in our veins and the beat of our hearts. What do we watch out for though, how can we tell our dogs are healthy and happy? What can we do to keep them active and contented? 
You will learn: 
How dogs made it so easily into our homes and hearts
Why nutrition is so important to health. 
How to monitor your dog’s health and why to keep records.
Mental stimulation games and why we should play them. 
How to check your dog’s vital signs at home. 
How to manage aches and pains, when medication may be needed and how supplements and therapies can help. 
Signs of common age related illness. 
How to manage and monitor your dog’s life quality. 
This book will help you provide the best possible care to your older dog, it will help you appreciate their quirks and give you tips of what to look out for. The guide is a handbook that will warm your heart and give you practical advice about the forever friend who shares your sofa and your life! 

dog , sally , positive reinforcement , pets , canine , health , older , legs , benji , food , talk , book , love , bell , yum , kibble , learning , write , teach , benefits

One Earth Body Care Spot -
Once you've had a wonderful dog a life without one is a life diminished. That's a quote by author Dean Koontz, and I couldn't agree more. I want my wonderful dogs to live as long as possible and what they eat plays a huge role in their health and longevity kibble is full of seed oils that wreak havoc on our dog's health. They damage their microbiome which affects digestion, oral health, their skin and coat and more. And that's why I feed my dog Benji yum with their air dried food is GMO free, and has an inflammation reducing recipe with Omega three and coconut oil. It's all the benefits of fresh food without the fridge carbs, filler seed oils and other inflammatory ingredients you see in other brands. Yum with obsessively crafted a healthy low carb food with humanely raised USDA Meat aids and other non GMO superfoods that my dog loves. Try the number one error dry dog food forget health for 50% off a trial of yum woof that's 50% off a trial of yum woof. Go to www dot yum That's www You and your dog will be so glad you did.

Dr. Judy Morgan Spot -
Does your family include a dog or a cat? Would you like to be better educated on how to advocate for their health naturally, then why not check out all of the amazing resources on naturally healthy Dr. Judy Morgan is a trusted advisor and a regular guest here on the dog eared podcast. She has over 38 years experience as an integrative veterinarian, acupuncturist chiropractor, food therapist, author, speaker, podcast host and owner of Dr. Judy Morgan's naturally healthy pets. Dr. Judy's goal is to change the lives of pets by educating and empowering pet parents just like you in the use of natural healing therapies and minimizing the use of chemicals, vaccinations and poor quality processed foods. Head on over to naturally healthy where you'll discover healthy product recommendations, comprehensive courses, the naturally healthy pets podcast, informative blogs, upcoming events and so much more. Again, that's naturally healthy The place to learn how to give your pet the vibrant life that they deserve

Does your dog do well here to answer that question as our fantastic guest Sally Gutteridge today we're going to be talking about her book The senior dog wellness guide which is a must have for every dog owner Sally Gutteridge safe writer obsessed with the welfare and well being of dogs as an ex military dog trainer, former instructor of Hearing Dogs for deaf people and long term rescuer Sally has devoted her life to Canine education and getting the right dog focused information to as many people as possible. Investigating and interpreting the most up to date science on how dogs live and learn is vital to the welfare of dogs and the accurate empathetic knowledge of their guardians within a successful partnership and an excellent team. Sally provides top quality education to Canine principles Ltd Sally lives in rural Cumbria, UK with an ever patient husband in for rescued terriers. Sally Does your dog do

is your dog getting older? without your permission, I have been something like that. Because that's the only fault that dogs have, isn't it? They we start to see they get stiff when them get in or they're happy to go without a walk one day. All of a sudden you look at them and there's a lot more gray there than they were last time you checked. And we see them it's quite unique. We see them as young dogs young, energetic, sometimes troubled, beautiful dogs. And bit by bit we see them grow into little old people I suppose don't when it's hard. It's hard but obviously it's also the sweetest, sweetest time. When we live with dogs that have got all their they struggle a bit they start to not be able to see Get as well and here as well and but at the same time for you for them, you've been with them for their entire life time. And you are their safety You're You're everything to them. And so it's The Sweetest time too.

Yeah, and I love in the book you have so many great quotes, quote, our dogs don't go straight from adulthood to goodbye though there's a precious time in the middle of the time when they look like their whiskers have been dusted with sugar, their bark becomes horse, their legs become stiff little pigs, and our relationship reaches a pinnacle of perfection. This book is about that time I love the Dustin whiskers and the sugar nose years you right are amazing times. And what's so great about this book is you really tell us everything we need to watch out for. So I want to start in health and responsibility. You write about accepting the holistic nature of canine health? What does that mean,

the holistic nature of any of us, and particularly our dogs, I believe to be the everything we do, I think that we've we've become a culture where we have like dog health, who we take to the vet. And we have dog training who we take to the dog trainer. And sometimes we venture into natural health, such as supplements and massage and things like that. But there's so much more to our dogs. And we've we we can sometimes forget that they do have their own preferences. And they do have their own emotional responses. And I'm 48 now, and I've worked really hard and some days, I just haven't got anything in me to do anything. I'm just like, Okay, I'm tired today, and I'm gonna except I'm tired today. But how often do we look at dogs who are in their lifetime later than I am in mine? And say, Okay, how do they feel today? Good. I just want to lay about on the sofa today, and if so that's absolutely fine. So I think we need to balance all of it, how they feel, how they move, how they act, how they eat. And we need to move away from the idea that we have the best who deals with the hell. And we have the trainer who deals with their behavior.

It's funny though, because even though I know it's good for Benji to not take a walk every day, I feel guilty because I'll take blue. So what I'll do if my husband's home before we leave for work, I'll say go outside with Benji and you know Padam and be with them. And then I'm going to sneak blue.

We actually have a dog buggy. And we pot, we kind of rotate the dogs in it. So chips, my 14 year old. He walks most of the time, but the girls because we've got a 12 year old and a 10 year old and they rotate in the buggy. So if they look particularly uncomfortable, then we'll pop them in the buggy and then get them out and do some food scattering in the park. But yeah, you do find yourself when you walk with all the dogs that you don't get any exercise benefits from it. You're just creeping along.

I'm just laughing I'm picturing my 90 pound lab and a buggy. Alright, now in chapter one adult two aged dude, right? When does a dog go from being your adult friend to your elderly companion. And you say that signs of aging may include the following. So they could have confusion, fecal incontinence, urination, incontinence, increased thirst, loss of decreased eyesight, or hearing reduced mobility, signs of pain, etc. And I really love that you talk about, you know, for us, for us humans, we can make choices, we can eat whole foods, and we can move our bodies we can work on our mental health. But the dogs rely on us to make sure we're giving them the absolute best. And I think for some people, they might think, well, I can't do that financially. I can't afford the you know, feed them or organic food or I can't. But there are certain but you can you can still watch out for things that are changing and do what you can.

Yeah, yeah, no, I completely agree with you. What seeing what might seem like a small change to us, can be a huge change in the welfare and benefits of one of our dogs. For example, if we did scatter feeding in the garden one day instead of going for a walk that might be better for the dog. You don't have to pay any more for it because you just use their dinner and yet they get to use They knows, and they get to do their tent work around the garden. And that's really relaxing. And that really helps them mentally and emotionally because they get into us that they're predominant sense, which we often forget about.

Yeah, that's true. And you talk about that in the book and life enrichment, you have sniffing, foraging and problem solving, finding food, and successful interactions with their loved ones. And you write that snipping as a dog's greatest joy, because in chapter two and cognition, you write, every aging brain will benefit from three excellent habits. Number one is stimulation through focus and learning to is oxygen boosted through suitable physical exercise, and three are nutrients through excellent food and relevant supplements. If you can talk about each one of these three things a bit, that would be great.

Yeah. So the first one was stimulation from learning and problem solving. Again, for that you don't have to spend, you don't have to spend anything to be able to give you adult problems to solve, you can use old socks and pop a little bit of food in an old sock. Any kind of recycling that safe paper boxes, paper bags, packaging, old instant gravy tops, I don't know if you have those over there.

No, it sounds good, though. I love gravy,

cereal boxes, anything like that. And the aim is that you give them something that they have to work on to use their mind. But it is just within their capacity to cope with. So you don't want to give them something that's too hard for them where they walk away and say, I can't do that. But you want to build it up. So they get there. I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this. I'm nearly there. And I'm nearly there. Yeah, got it. Because that's really good for their mental health. It's really good for their self esteem and self belief. And it also gets the neural pathway building and growing, which is great for a brain that's getting older.

Yeah. So that's that

with, sorry, I just turned my Do Not Disturb on because the second one is, obviously walk him but you can do it through scatter fee, then you can do it through physio exercises. There are basic physio exercises that you can do where you teach your dog to sit and stand them fit and stand them. And that strengthens the backend. A lot of dogs that have pain in the back end with hips or back legs, they tend to shift their weight right forward.

Oh my gosh, yes. All right. When Benji completely He almost looks like he's going to tip forward like tip over.

Yeah. Sometimes, yeah, bless him. So yeah, they're what they're doing is they're saying it's not that comfortable. And we all do it. Any of us that have any kind of injury or weakness will shift over so that the stronger parts of our body can deal with it. And that's why a lot of dogs when they have arthritis in the back their front leg space out wider because they're taking more weight at the front. And things like asking a doctor sit and stand and sit and stand and sit and stand is a really good physio exercise, because it strengthens these back legs so they can then start to shift their weight back onto their back legs. And you only need to do it a few times for their heart rate to raise. And you can do it just things like normal obstacles like standard the front legs on the stairs or a step and sit and stand and sit and stand. And it it can get them kind of panting and having fun and enjoying it particularly when you do it with clicker training and with treats. And with food. It's like yeah, this is great. I'm having a great time and within 1010 minutes there's Pantene and coffin and you know, they've they've interacted with you. They've had fun, they put some weight on muscles that they've already started shifting weight off, and their brains getting oxygen.

I love that. I'm going to start doing that with Benji. The other thing I want to do is we have a pond in our town and as soon as it gets warm enough, I want to start bringing them to the pond. Now the third thing and this is something I've gotten really into has to do with the food now, everyone knows this story. So I'll keep it short. So my pity blue, he's very sensitive and he's itchy and he's got allergies. So he is on cook Turkey cooked a corn, squash and cooked peas right now with some with supplements and I'm going to add some more things to that. And he's doing good Wait, he's lost a little bit of weight. He's not chewing his paws all the time. It's amazing. And then for Benji, I feed him Yum, woof. And the reason I do is because it's air dried, and it's all real food, which I really like,

I might I caught a few years ago, and it was about commercial dog food. And not until I wrote that course, and did all the research for that course, I used to feed my dogs commercial dog food, and they'd have pinned me and Tim kibble. And that's what they'd have. And maybe it was, that was their food. And then I wrote this course. And then I was like, Oh, my goodness. There's so much that can go wrong with feeding your dog. Just dog food. However, if that's how you do it, and it suits your dog and their poop, okay, it's working for them, you can just add little bit scene that will help their body to cope as they get older. So you can add fish oil in, you can add a tin of sardines in which is really got the brain and the joints. You can add in fresh vegetables with their food, you can give them a carrot to chew because it's a perfect brush. You can even if you don't want to move away from the food that they've already had, or you have got a very limited budget for food. If you give your dog table scraps, which can be broccoli, cabbage, any kind of Sunday roast me and you buy cheap soybeans in oil, you can help them nutritionally without making too many massive changes, right? Because often, if you think like cable is just dry biscuits, and if a dog's on that for their entire life, there are there are lots of nutrients and lots of fresh foods and lots of enzymes, that they're not actually get him because kibble and it doesn't give the dog the same as if they chewed a raw fresh carrot. So we've we, we don't have to spend a fortune to just incorporate fresh foods into their diet.

Now one chapter for aches and pains. You talk about some of the different things that are happening, and that we really need to watch for changes, your dog may be defensive and avoids being touched, they may struggle to jump up on things, they may be aggressive towards you or another dog because of they're afraid of getting bumped, which is something I hadn't even thought of before. And then you jump into talking about osteo arthritis. And when you talk about some of the therapies that we've already mentioned, I just ordered Benji, a really nice orthopedic bed. And I'm super excited that you have some great recommendations in the book.

I am i We've just moved house and I am I donated half of our dog beds to dog rescue. We've still got way too many I'm so obsessed with that. Because whenever for dogs up until relatively recently, and you kind of go well everybody must have one.

And I think it's important to have the you know, holistic therapies that you talk about in the book and to have options, you know, like I massage Benji myself, like my, the physical therapist who did the aquatic therapy, I was lucky he taught me what to do. Now I could hire someone or I could do it myself. So I do it myself, you know, and yeah, it takes time. And I'll be honest, I don't do it every day. Sometimes I forget. But I try at my best or sometimes I can't get him to lie on the on the correct side to do it. And but I think that's where we can step up.

Yeah, I think it's really important to find a balance as well, because we do want to do the best for our dogs without a doubt. But at the same point, we also have to acknowledge when we are doing the best we can for our dogs, because we we humans, we love a bit of guilt that way. And it's so easy to get caught in the idea that you're not doing enough you're not doing enough you're not doing enough. And even when you do, you kind of you live you create your world around your dogs. So it's really important as well to be kind to yourself and say I am doing everything I can or I am doing everything Come for what I've got right now, in my resources. Otherwise we could drive ourselves stop to eat couldn't wait.

Yeah, that's such a good point when I took blue to the holistic fat and she said, Okay, the goal is to get them off the kibble. And then you add this, and you do a few teaspoons of this, and this and this. And we had a family situation with my father in law, there's bunch of stuff going on. And I felt guilty. I'm like, crap, it's been six weeks. He's still on kibble. And I was like, You know what? Life happens. And now he's off the kibble. He's been off the kibble for a month. And yeah, it took few months longer than I planned, but he's off and everything's fine. But yeah, we can beat ourselves up, because we want to do the best for our dogs. But get in the way we can,

we can become obsessive with it. And we can give ourselves a really hard time for it a lot, a lot easier than giving ourselves a pat on the back for it. And so I think when we watch, when we watch our dogs getting older, we have to let go of some of the pressure we put on ourselves. Because no matter what they're gonna get older, no matter what their body's gonna run out at some point, and we can't help. So we have to find a balance to say, Yes, I can do the very best I can, and I am doing that. But if it's not perfect, I'm still doing the very best that I can.

Yeah, I really appreciate that. In addition to dog eared, I have a show called Health power. No, I've been in health media for 24 years radio, TV, and podcasts. And I really care about not just what I put in my body but what I put on my body. So I am absolutely in love with one Earth body hair. Now, I extend that to my pets. I'm very careful about what I feed them and I'm very careful about what I put on them. So I was so excited to find out that one or body care also has pet shampoo bars, which are phenomenal. They're gentle with organic oatmeal the smooth skin. They're neutral pH matches your pet skin pH last 20 Plus washes for Large Dogs and they're scented with pet friendly essential oils. They also have a skin fix for pets, organic coconut sunflower and jojoba oils. It has calendula, which stimulates healing is great for hotspots itchy patches in their nose and cause its edible ingredients safe to lick and it's available with lavender oil or unscented. So I highly recommend you go to one or Click on pets and get these for your pets. And while you're there, you can get wonderful things for your hair, your face and body and more again, why on earth body Now in chapter five health maintenance, you talk about essential health checking now what are some of the essentials to check on our dogs.

As dogs get older, they you know how people can get cataracts. Dogs can also get cataracts, and they also can start to lose their sight and their hearing. And it can be a strange thing to experience as a dog guardian. Because if you imagine how a dog would feel in a world that they don't have a lot of control over anyway. And suddenly they can't hear so well. And they don't see so well. So they might get a little bit clean gear, they might kind of hang on to a bit more there might seem more confused. And to help them with that kind of thing. We can do things like not moving the furniture around too much not moving around them so quickly. Not being by them while they're asleep. So they wake up and jump and things like that. As for general health checks, what you're looking for really, that is bespoke to dogs that are getting all that is looking and smelling inside ears to check that everything's okay in there. Looking at the if there's any sheen on the eyes that started to come, because that can show that they have cataracts come in. But one of the main things I'd say is to observe, feel them for any lumps coming up because lumps can be sinister or they can be harmless. But the earlier that you find a lump and get it to the vet, get your dog to the vet with that lump, the more chance you've got of getting it sorted out if it's sinister. Another thing to check when you kind of kind of run your hands over your dog is their muscle tone in their back legs. Because if dogs stop relying on a certain limb because it's painful, so like we were saying they might shift forward. Them also kind of on their back legs will will deteriorate. So where you're where you previously have a dog that would kind of race around under big chunky muscles on my legs, it all goes a lot thinner, and it becomes less useful to them. So you'll fail for that. And another thing that you'll check when you're doing a health check is to see what the coach doing. Because if a dog temps, he's up over an area that saw, the coat will change. So you might have a where a dog's coat was smooth as they get older, if they're tensing up around my hips, because the hips are sore, you're gonna get a lot of Toschi kind of code changes around the hips. And that's what you're looking for, really, with older dogs, specifically with older dogs.

You know, one of the things that I thought was so interesting in that book as well is that you did touch on the benefits of positive reinforcement, talk to us about positive reinforcement learning. And then you also talk about something very important is teaching them to ring a bell, especially as they get older to let you know they need to go out. Yeah, very much. ringing my bell.

Positive reinforcement is the only way that dogs should be taught. I don't know how much you know about dog training and the dog training industry and how people kind of there's this big battle between positive reinforcement and using kind of punishment. But we should only aim to use positive reinforcement. And the reason we should only aim to use that is because it speaks directly to the dog's brain. It maintains a good emotional state for the dog. It works to build their self esteem. And as much as possible, it also prevents them from experiencing stress. As our dogs get older, they can particularly if we have a dog that we rescued or had a bad start in life, any anxiety that they had when they got to us will go. And then as they get older, it can come back in. So as if you think that the brain it developed in, for example, a rescue dog that had a bad start, it would have developed in a situation that was stressful. And then it spent a lot of its time learning to live in a safe situation. But then as the brain starts to degenerate, it's gonna start to revert back to what it learned right at the beginning. training through punishment, or force, or making a dog do something or misunderstanding what a dog saying to us can cause anxiety in itself. Yet to training through your positive reinforcement can grow confidence and work against causing anxiety, because it helps a dog to make the right choices and it helps adults to cope.

I was wondering, is there something you can do when you just mentioned that as they get older, their anxiety comes back? Like even if you're doing the positive reinforcement? Is there anything else we can do to help our dogs if that's happening?

Um, it's we should when we live with dogs, the priority that was that we should have, in my opinion, is that we always make them feel safe. Because if we think that they don't have much control over their environment, we've got them in our homes, we expose them to our lives. And if we imagine if we were in that situation, how safe would we feel? So throughout a dog's life, our priority should not be making them walk nicely on the lead particularly it should not be making them well mannered, little pets, it should be making them feel safe. And when a dog starts to feel old age anxiety, we have to work harder to make them feel safe. So we do everything that we've always done, but we add that little bit of extra understanding that yes, they might not be feeling safe as easily as they did five years ago. How can I make them feel safe?

Okay, now can you walk us through how to train them to ring the bell? Yeah, So I guess as long as it takes, right, depending on your dog,

yeah, yeah. And it's basic marker training and targeting. So what you would do is you would teach your dog that your marker meant to reward. So, for example, I'll say clicker. So you teach a bug, but you click mean to treat and you do that over three or four sessions, click trade, click, trade, click trade, click trade, and then you put it away. And then you come back a couple of hours later, when they click trick trick trick. And your dog will be like, Whoa, this, this is great. I get see when I hear the sound. And when your dog realizes that they get shot sutra and my hair that found, the next thing you do is you start to teach a new behavior through it. So with Rosie is down here, we have a little bell with a little button on and we put it down in front of her and kind of stand and she knows you've got the click, he knows you've got the food and sugar, right? What can I do to get back click. And so she'll kind of get in a few different positions. So you should try this and try that. And then she'll just kind of eventually, because she's so clever, she'll just ash, bash the bell, and it'll go ding, and you'll go click. And then she'll have like three, and then three or four goes, and she's like, I know what I have to do here. Is the bell thing clicked victory. Yay. And that's it.

But how do you get them to? How did they know that that's a signal that they need to go out that they ring the bell, when they need to go out? How does that happen?

What you would do is you would cake, once they've got the idea that ringing the bell, gets them something that they want, you would generalize that then you'd have the bell in another room and they go off and drink it and come back for about three to and then you would take it to the door that they normally go out for. And you would practice it there. So click, ring, click tree ring, click tree, ring, clip tree. And you could then when you do let them out, you open the door, what you would do is you'd have the door close, you'd have the bail, they take them for the bail, they would ring the bell, you'd give them the tree and you'd open the door. And do that a few times. And then now we'll learn by approach that is called Classical Conditioning by a process of classical conditioning. What I do this, this happened, and then this happens. And then before you know it, this is a process in my mind. So when I do this, I get treat, the door opens when I do this, I get treated, the door opens. And then it's like they get to the door the doors not open, that you're not standing there watching waiting for them. It's like last time I did about 30 times I've done this, and the 30 times that I've done this, the door has opened and I really need a way. Let's do what you said. I'm gonna get this door open or just and then it's like, oh, no, no, you can't.

Oh my gosh, okay, I have to try that now. Chapter Six Twilight, you write that? It's a hard chapter to write. And it was a hard chapter. It's a hard chapter to read. And you write one of the most common questions we hear is how will I know when it's time to let my dog go. And what's so great in this book is you really break it down for people and you talk about mental health. You talk about confusion and pain and mobility issues. Is your dog happy, feel excited about things or take pleasure in things. And there's always this conversation or this guilt of I did it too early or I did it too late with both of my dogs that I had before. One of them just wet and wet and wet and wet and wet. He's 13 my pit mix and literally just fell over one day and two days later, we had to put him down everything was failing. And he didn't even slip you never slow down like it was crazy. And then my German Shepherd, I reset our mix Bobo. He lived to be 15. It was a big dog. But he had the last year really slowing down and then all the accidents and then he fell down the stairs one day. I always felt like we did it too early. But when I look back, I think I think it was the right thing to do. But it's so hard. It's so hard. Any words of that you'd love to share it on this would be great.

I think it's one of the hardest things we've had to get out. It's so hard. But I agree with you that a little bit early is better than late and Sometimes it gets taken out of your hands, then, like our last dog, it was taken out of our hands. He was like your dog, he just, he was a puppy for his entire life. And he got to 15. We're on holiday, and he started having seizures, and we lost him that night. So sometimes it's taken out your hand, but I think often it's people with their first dog, that might leave it a little bit too late. But then afterwards, it's a learning process. It's, it's like we've left it a little bit, I've left it too late for the stock, because I couldn't let them go. But I won't do that again. And that's kind of that that's what I see, in my experience. But they've absolutely nothing we can do to stop our dogs getting old. We can't, it's their own fault, isn't it? Their own new fault is that they become senior, and they get old and their body stopped working for them. And I think if we can be kind to them, and also be kind to ourselves, and we work in from the heart, when we make the decisions on their behalf because they can't do it. I think we can't do any more than that.

With true,

we're very lucky that we can help dogs along. Because my dog, who we lost most recently, because he started having seizures, died in exactly the same way as my dad died. I'm so sorry. But I had to sit in a hospital room and watch my dad have seizures for 36 hours. And I remember saying to my husband, we wouldn't do this to a dog. But then 18 months later, we were in exactly the same position with the dog. But we let him go a lot quicker. And I think we're so lucky that we have that choice.

Absolutely. I think we need it for people. But that's a whole nother conversation. We had it done at the vet. And now I didn't even realize that there was options to do it at home. So my husband, I were talking about that because of your book. It's so great. It brought up so many issues. And so we said yeah, if if we if we can, if we can, we'd like to we'd like to do it at home. In the book. At the end, you write that you were in tears thinking about all the dogs you've had. And I have. What is it called? I think it's anticipatory grief, or something like that where I'm already sad. Yeah, yeah. Right. It's so hard. But it's part of being a dog owner, you know, and you talk about that if you are sad, and there's grief and but you do it all over again. What was there anything that you wanted to add today? I mean, of course, we're gonna give all the ways that people can find you. But again, this book is so incredibly important. I mean, I feel so much more relaxed now. Like I know what to look for. I know what to do I know how to help. Again, it's the senior dog wellness guide Sally Gutteridge. Sally, was there anything you wanted to add today?

In all honesty, if it helps somebody to go through and to cope with watching and watching their dog get older and knowing when to make that decision and knowing what to expect and knowing how to understand that dogs if one person benefits then it's just worth writing it?

Well, I'm sure a lot of people have benefited Sally. It's a wonderful book and you have so many books. So we're going to have you on a lot. I'm super excited where I'm a one woman operation. I'm gonna ask you I'm like my team. And I have myself for Good to have you on a lot. Sally, tell us all the ways we could find you.

Well, I have no website, Sammy got I also have, which me and my husband own and Ron, which is an online course website called canine So we sell, oh, I think we've got about 80 online courses on there. And we've got students all over the world with canine principles, and it's all built on my belief that we're here with dogs, they're not here for us. So that's kind of principles. And then in the UK, we've also got the National Institute for canine ethics, which is a membership organization for dog trainers and behaviorist and carers, which encourages and teaches people to be ethical around dogs. So people join and then they get one have been awesome week. They kind of make a shiner statement to say this is how I work. So any of those things.

Oh, fantastic. Well Sally, I can't wait to have you back. I'm going to be reading all of your books as this was so incredibly helpful. Again, the senior dog wellness guide, and everybody keep coming back to dog eared and also check out health power while you're here. And be sure to check out yum with as well. And I have a new sponsor called one Earth body They have a shampoo bar for your dog that has the right pH balance. They also have a sound that you can put on your dog when they you know their paws gets to where they get itchy. So I'm super excited about that. So check them out as well. One Earth body And get some stuff for yourself as well. Have a great day.